Inteview with Cesium
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RAW Staff have done a chat with Cesium to get some scene point of view. - I guess it`s about 1-10 real hackers in Norway, Cesium says. Are the Norwegians only friendly? Read all about it here in RAW. >>> Please turn page <<< Hacking discussion with Cesium by Terrox and Cesium/Session Lately the media have focused more and more into things like; hacking and phreaking. Sure, there is people who absolutely have to show their skills in a very negative way. No doubt, I have seen it myself - that`s nothing to discuss. But what make me irritated is the general impression the media put public. A messages making impression of that every computer freak hacks and phreaks. Is that true? Should people that like computing always come inside the same definition as a hacker? To be get some more professional views, I have made a chat with Cesium/Session. To make it clear immediately: Cesium is NOT a hacker himself (as some rumours around has stated). Cesium is back in Scene, and have started Session where he is the organizer, or `leader` as he put it. He sure have some busy days; exams, Off Piste and working part-time as a ROM journalist. He even has some time for Raw. Thank you, Cesium! Cesium about mass media Media focus more and more on hacking and preaking. But do they really put the whole true story on the table? - "It's hard for me to generalize the media's coverage on this topic. (then I would do the same as they do towards "us"). In Stavanger, we have an excellent newspaper called "Stavanger Aftenblad" ("Stavanger Daily") which puts better informed journalists to do such articles, thus giving a more reflected viewpoint of the average teenage computer "freak". "Freak", I hate that word. In 10-15 years 50-70% of all homes will have a computer - perhaps then skilled computer users will be admired and looked up upon instead of the opposite, like it is among most people today. If they do, it's because they don't know better. Mass media in Norway (which is the only mass media I have a deeper knowledge of) very often chooses the simplest solution to the stories they present. Their articles lack research, common sense - and very often they don't even talk with the persons involved. The media have a standard opinion on almost everything in daily life. This reflects how youngsters modern behaviours are presented. Remember, mass media of today is made for our parent generation who haven't grown up with computers, Internet and MTV. This is actually one of the reasons why we're starting up the new youths' papermagazine "Off Piste" this fall - to give new and different points of view on various topics which young Europeans are concerned about." This is how the situation is today; magazines, newspapers and movies has too much money involved. Cesium mentioned the unprofessional Norwegian writers that break the journalistic rules. He also means many journalists (maybe editors too?) have done too little research. This is essential for being a polite and well liked journalist. And don`t forget about the parent generation, which includes most of the none-Scene journalists. It`s their opinions (wrong or true). We don`t get to know the Scene point of view concerning hacking and preaking! I can mention the book "Cracker" with Stein Moellerhaug (a norwegian author) telling a story about a young hacker. This is an example of parents taking (ie trying to take) a step into the yougsters life. Cesiums comment this parent generation author: - "It was an interesting and entertaining story, though the author wasn't a brilliant writer." This I think is one of Cesiums best point and it reveal some facts. I, Terrox, think that hackers and journalists deal with a sort of hidden symbiosis. They don`t know each other, they don`t have any close contact and they both want to bring news into daylight. Hackers (after the journalists definition) want to publish their face and alias, on the other side the grateful writers eating all raw. Publish everything and make no checking! Threat and punishments You are a sysop at Omaha Thunder and have a lot of insight to the BBS-World. Do you feel hacking as a threat? - "I'm not particulary afraid of anyone hacking my BBS (which currently is down because the lightning burnt my A4000). I have never heard of anyone hacking a CNet BBS. Besides - what is there to get? Some userdata files and at the worst formatting my harddrive. This is just something one has to live with - I'd compare it as bad as getting a HD-crash, which I've already had a couple of times now." What is the punishment for hacking and Calling Cards misuse? - "Don't ask me! Ask a lawyer. It varies a lot from case to case, I believe. Besides, there hasn't been many cases of this kind in Norway. The only hacker/phreaker I know of who's been caught and put to trial is Gizmo. He had to go to jail for some months because of selling cards. He's out on the streets now, and actually works as an Internet provider too - in another company than Edison. (should we really trust our Net-access on such kinds of people? ;-) Preaking - the past time? Why did you use Calling Cards some years ago and not now? - "I used CCs a couple of years ago, when things were safer in Norway. It's easy to understand why - one could call the US and Europe for free! When things were cooking up, I went over to only call voice to my scene friends via phone booths. It was also very nice indeed when a lot of different sceners phoned me up with CCs. That was a really enjoyable time and I got a lot of friends this way." This time is for most a past time. Contact meant a lot before, unfortunately before my scene-time. This phone booths might also be one reason for the falling scene contact the scene deal with today. Scene costs, Scene pays the best - Scene slowly die! (...please turn page...) (...continued from last page...) - "In 1995, I don't think anyone uses CCs in Norway - if there is, it's got to be only a very few persons. It's extremely risky because of the digital phone centrals which the telecom installed during 1994. I wouldn't advice anybody to use it today." That is for sure. CC-hackers try hard to get some dealers and sellers in Norway, but don`t seem to succeed. I am not sure how it is in other countries nowadays. Most truly the same. Hackers as traitors - "I think it really is the worst thing to do as a hacker to go over to "the other side". It's just as bad as being a traitor in the army and firing at your fellow soldiers. If a hacker does this kind of thing, he's most likely to be frown out by the whole hacker community, he won't be able to share passwords, hints and numbers with anyone who knows about what he's done." Cesium also have some points about so-called hackers: - "Without knowing Decker personally, I imagine him as a typical hacker-wannabe whom there are plenty of everywhere. Just watch #hack on IRC on the Net..." Goverment and deals Should the Norwegian government care about Norwegian, Swedish, Danish or Finnish phonecalls to AT&T or MCI in USA or Netherlands if they discover misuse? Are there any SAFE ways to check the use of Calling Cards? - "I don't think it's a matter of CARE. It's a matter of economic cooperation between the respective countries. Scandinavia is a part of a close economic and political relationship with a.o the US. Therefore it's only natural, that if the Norwegian government is asked by USA to trace national card-abusers, they do so without any hesitation. If you you're not connected to a digital phone central, the risk is much lower to get caught from using cards. In some phone boots you may still dial for free to AT&T and use cards from there. Still, the telecom may trace you if they REALLY want to, especially if you stay in the booth for an extended amount of time. I think the case isn't about the possibility of being traced, it's a question about whether the telecom wants to trace it or not (keep in mind they will have to go through a long and expensive series of trials if they do. They need to have valid proofs.)" Cesium also think that elite BBS`es don`t need to be so scared about "hackers". It mostly contains (boring) cracks, and NO important industrial information which has most value for real hackers (those "WarGame hackers"). And the positive for the amiga Scene according to Cesium is that: - "Hackers stay to PC`s, NOT amiga. I guess it`s about 1-10 real hackers in Norway!" A hack for money Cesium still deny that he is a hacker. Amiga Scene in general contains traders, crackers and phreakers - NO hackers. But as amiga is hack-clean, why is the world business only using PC`s then? Just to be sure getting their system hacked? A paradox in my view! Maybe an idea to change system on the big industrial information storage to amiga. I don`t know. Though, Cesium is a bit weak for money. He continue: - "If I was to hack any system, it had to be for economic reasons - either directly by getting cash into my bank account, or to get hold of valuable information which I could sell or use to get money in some way or another. I believe the latter is the "best" thing to do if you want to hack something, since it'll be the hardest thing to trace back to you." Cesium says some true words here. Also have in mind the raising amount of new established databanks - ready for getting hacked. If you have the key to it. I herby send a warning to those of you that think buying wares over modem only is a nice thing. If you leave your creditcard number or similar, you might getting a shock later on. Guaranteed one of the biggest problem in the coming decade. Just take this as a warning, not as moralizing. Do you think the future will be very chaotic if these activities continue? - "It's hard to say. It seems like the telecoms and the police have a good control of it today, at least. (Or do they just pretend to?)" Commercial If anybody would like to get in touch with me (Cesium) for getting information about "Off Piste", send an e-mail to: frodeer oslonett.no or dial +47-900-92497.