Inteview with Cesium

found inTypeAuthorYear
downloadsRAW 8Diskmagazine
interviews
Spaceballs & Virtual Dreams
Antibyte - Astro - Brainwasher - ...
a5/95
added 5/95
RAW Staff have done a chat with Cesium to
get some scene point of view.



- I guess it`s about 1-10 real hackers in Norway, Cesium
says.



Are the Norwegians only friendly?

Read all about it here in RAW.




 >>> Please turn page <<<





Hacking discussion

with Cesium




by Terrox and Cesium/Session




Lately the media have focused more and more into things like; hacking
and phreaking. Sure, there is people who absolutely have to show their
skills in a very negative way. No doubt, I have seen it myself - that`s
nothing to discuss. But what make me irritated is the general impression
the media put public. A messages making impression of that every computer
freak hacks and phreaks. Is that true? Should people that like computing
always come inside the same definition as a hacker?



To be get some more professional views, I have made a chat with
Cesium/Session. To make it clear immediately: Cesium is NOT a hacker
himself (as some rumours around has stated).



Cesium is back in Scene, and have started Session where he is the
organizer, or `leader` as he put it. He sure have some busy days;
exams, Off Piste and working part-time as a ROM journalist. He even has
some time for Raw. Thank you, Cesium!



Cesium about mass media

Media focus more and more on hacking and preaking. But do they really
put the whole true story on the table?



- "It's hard for me to generalize the media's coverage on this topic.
(then I would do the same as they do towards "us").
In Stavanger, we have an excellent newspaper called "Stavanger
Aftenblad" ("Stavanger Daily") which puts better
informed journalists to do such articles, thus giving a more reflected
viewpoint of the average teenage computer "freak".
"Freak", I hate that word. In 10-15 years 50-70% of all homes will 
have a computer - perhaps then skilled computer users will be
admired and looked up upon instead of the opposite, like it is among
most people today.



If they do, it's because they don't know better. Mass media in Norway
(which is the only mass media I have a deeper knowledge of) very
often chooses the simplest solution to the stories they present.
Their articles lack research, common sense - and very often they don't
even talk with the persons involved. The media have a standard
opinion on almost everything in daily life. This reflects how 
youngsters modern behaviours are presented. Remember, mass media
of today is made for our parent generation who haven't grown up with
computers, Internet and MTV. This is actually one of the reasons why
we're starting up the new youths' papermagazine "Off Piste" this fall
- to give new and different points of view on various topics which
young Europeans are concerned about."



This is how the situation is today; magazines, newspapers and movies
has too much money involved. Cesium mentioned the unprofessional
Norwegian writers that break the journalistic rules. He also means
many journalists (maybe editors too?) have done too little research.
This is essential for being a polite and well liked journalist. And
don`t forget about the parent generation, which includes most of
the none-Scene journalists. It`s their opinions (wrong or true).



We don`t get to know the Scene point of view concerning hacking and
preaking!



I can mention the book "Cracker" with Stein Moellerhaug (a norwegian
author) telling a story about a young hacker. This is an example of
parents taking (ie trying to take) a step into the yougsters life.
Cesiums comment this parent generation author:



- "It was an interesting and entertaining story, though
the author wasn't a brilliant writer."



This I think is one of Cesiums best point and it reveal some facts. I,
Terrox, think that hackers and journalists deal with a sort of hidden
symbiosis. They don`t know each other, they don`t have any close contact
and they both want to bring news into daylight. Hackers (after the
journalists definition) want to publish their face and alias, on the
other side the grateful writers eating all raw. Publish everything and
make no checking!



Threat and punishments

You are a sysop at Omaha Thunder and have a lot of insight to the
BBS-World. Do you feel hacking as a threat?



- "I'm not particulary afraid of anyone hacking my BBS (which currently
is down because the lightning burnt my A4000). I have never heard of
anyone hacking a CNet BBS. Besides - what is there to get? 
Some userdata files and at the worst formatting my harddrive. 
This is just something one has to live with - I'd compare it as bad as
getting a HD-crash, which I've already had a couple of times now."



What is the punishment for hacking and Calling Cards misuse?



- "Don't ask me! Ask a lawyer. It varies a lot from case to case, I
believe. Besides, there hasn't been many cases of this kind in Norway.
The only hacker/phreaker I know of who's been caught and put to trial 
is Gizmo. He had to go to jail for some months because of selling
cards. He's out on the streets now, and actually works as an Internet
provider too - in another company than Edison. (should we really trust
our Net-access on such kinds of people? ;-)



Preaking - the past time?

Why did you use Calling Cards some years ago and not now?



- "I used CCs a couple of years ago, when things were safer in Norway.
It's easy to understand why - one could call the US and Europe for
free! When things were cooking up, I went over to only call voice to
my scene friends via phone booths. It was also very nice indeed when
a lot of different sceners phoned me up with CCs. That was a really
enjoyable time and I got a lot of friends this way."



This time is for most a past time. Contact meant a lot before,
unfortunately before my scene-time. This phone booths might also be one
reason for the falling scene contact the scene deal with today. Scene
costs, Scene pays the best - Scene slowly die!



(...please turn page...)



(...continued from last page...)



- "In 1995, I don't think anyone uses CCs in Norway - if there is,
it's got to be only a very few persons. It's extremely risky because 
of the digital phone centrals which the telecom installed during
1994. I wouldn't advice anybody to use it today."



That is for sure. CC-hackers try hard to get some dealers and sellers in
Norway, but don`t seem to succeed. I am not sure how it is in other
countries nowadays. Most truly the same.



Hackers as traitors

- "I think it really is the worst thing to do as a
hacker to go over to "the other side". It's just as bad as being a
traitor in the army and firing at your fellow soldiers. If a hacker
does this kind of thing, he's most likely to be frown out
by the whole hacker community, he won't be able to share passwords,
hints and numbers with anyone who knows about what he's done."



Cesium also have some points about so-called hackers:



- "Without knowing Decker personally, I imagine him as a typical
hacker-wannabe whom there are plenty of everywhere. Just watch #hack
on IRC on the Net..."

Goverment and deals

Should the Norwegian government care about Norwegian, Swedish, Danish or
Finnish phonecalls to AT&T or MCI in USA or Netherlands if they discover
misuse? Are there any SAFE ways to check the use of Calling Cards?



- "I don't think it's a matter of CARE. It's a matter of economic
cooperation between the respective countries. Scandinavia is a part of
a close economic and political relationship with a.o the US.
Therefore it's only natural, that if the Norwegian government is 
asked by USA to trace national card-abusers, they do so without any 
hesitation. If you you're not connected to a digital phone central,
the risk is much lower to get caught from using cards.



In some phone boots you may
still dial for free to AT&T and use cards from there. Still, the
telecom may trace you if they REALLY want to, especially if you stay 
in the booth for an extended amount of time. I think the case isn't 
about the possibility of being traced, it's a question about
whether the telecom wants to trace it or not (keep in mind they 
will have to go through a long and expensive series of trials if 
they do. They need to have valid proofs.)"



Cesium also think that elite BBS`es don`t need to be so scared about
"hackers". It mostly contains (boring) cracks, and NO important
industrial information which has most value for real hackers (those
"WarGame hackers"). And the positive for the amiga Scene according to
Cesium is that:



- "Hackers stay to PC`s, NOT amiga. I guess it`s about 1-10 real
hackers in Norway!"



A hack for money

Cesium still deny that he is a hacker. Amiga Scene in general contains
traders, crackers and phreakers - NO hackers. But as amiga is hack-clean,
why is the world business only using PC`s then? Just to be sure getting
their system hacked? A paradox in my view! Maybe an idea to change
system on the big industrial information storage to amiga. I don`t
know.



Though, Cesium is a bit weak for money. He continue:



- "If I was to hack any system, it had to be for economic reasons -
either directly by getting cash into my bank account, or to get hold
of valuable information which I could sell or use to get money in some
way or another. I believe the latter is the "best" thing to do if you
want to hack something, since it'll be the hardest thing to trace back
to you."



Cesium says some true words here. Also have in mind the raising amount
of new established databanks - ready for getting hacked. If you have the
key to it. I herby send a warning to those of you that think buying
wares over modem only is a nice thing. If you leave your
creditcard
number or similar, you might getting a shock later on. Guaranteed one of
the biggest problem in the coming decade. Just take this
as a warning, not as moralizing.



Do you think the future will be very chaotic if these activities
continue?



- "It's hard to say. It seems like the telecoms and the police
have a good control of it today, at least. (Or do they just pretend
to?)"

Commercial

If anybody would like to get in touch with me (Cesium) for getting
information about "Off Piste", send an e-mail to:



frodeer oslonett.no



or dial +47-900-92497.